Just a note for those looking for good deal and concern about consumer affairs. We recently began issuing caps to our membership. In counting I found that each black tin of two hundred caps actually contain only 198 caps. Small peanuts for inaccurate counting. However the count is very consistent. I opened ten tins and there were exactly 198 caps in each one. I have another 10 yet to count but I doubt they will yield a different result. Now I figured that each cap is about 4 cents. Go figure 20 tins with 40 caps missing...that a $1.60. In volume we purchased 20 tins but only received 19 full tins with one missing 20%, containing only 160 caps.
Our original order of caps was actually twice the amount we got. If the order was filled we would have only gotten 39 full tins with the 20th containing only 120 caps.
To the individual this is petty concern but it a huge profit to the manufacturer who sells millions of tins a year. So lets look at the bigger picture. Let say they sell a millions tins. By short changing every tin 2 caps that's $80,000!
Reality check....if they simply label the tins 198 musket caps instead of 200, there there would be no issue. (but bet they only fill with 196 caps at that point.)
I guess the issue is about integrity and figure I should advise my frugal compatriots of the concern.
Will
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Legitimate concern
Why don't you write the manufacturer? If there is a legitimate reason for this, he will reply. If he is doing it deliberately, he won't.
Legitimate Reason
I don't see what legitimate reason there could be for selling 198 caps in a box marked 200. This happening twice in a row indicates there may be some problems with integrity on the part of the manufacturer. I'd inventory all the boxes, document the results, and if possible have an impartial witness verify some of the boxes. Armed with that I would go to the appropriate regulatory agency (weights and measures?) and the state police and make an official complaint that they are shorting their product. If these were ordered by mail the U.S. Postal Inspector would probably be the "go to" people. I'd get the interest of the regulatory agencies by telling them how much money this variation of the"salami slicing" scam could add up to.
Bob Firth
Late of the 25th Mass
These cans are loaded by
These cans are loaded by machines, this could be a problem in just one lot. Will you have way too much time if you are counting caps, the theroitical costs of sitting and counting out twenty cans of caps in lost productivity in other areas of the household may offset any monetary loss due to the lack of caps. ill have to ask what promted the counting? I have never bought anything that had a number and wondered if there were actually 556 m&ms in that family size bag.
they say the devils in the details.
Seamus
"SOMEBODY LIGHT THIS MONKEY!"
Homer J. Simpson
Thumb on the scale
Sounds more like the industrial version of the butcher with his thumb on the scale. A smart computer programmer back some years ago was working for a large international bank and rigged a program to calculate customer accounts to the .001 of a cent. Then he had that fraction of a cent added to a hidden account. What individual would squawk at losing .03 of a cent, but multiply that by several million, you have something significant. THe line has to be drawn somewhere. Silence indicates allowance and submission to those who would exploit us be it percussion caps, gasoline, etc. ad infinitum.
"Never Apologize, It's a sign of weakness!
Cpt. Nathan Brittles
Pvt. Steve Henry
Co. A, 3rd Maine Volunteer Infantry
"Bath City Greys
Principles
Seamus, it's the principle of the thing dammit. Steve is 100% correct in his assessment, no one cares if someone takes a penny from you, but if someone takes a penny from 100,000 people, that's $1,000.00 With large companies that do huge volumes, this is a common scam. The math was already done in the first post on this thread, so the potential extra profit would add up quickly.
Could there be an innocent explanation? Yes. Could this company also be shorting their boxes? Yes. The burden is upon the seller to make sure that what is delivered is the same as what is represented, and right now there is evidence to indicate that the seller is not delivering what they are being paid for.
The next box of caps I buy, I'm going to count every last one and raise hell if I get shorted. I think I just may weigh my powder too.
Bob Firth
On a roll
Im (believe it or not) a
Im (believe it or not) a principled man, thaats why im not wealthy. Termed by a couple of my wifes friends as the only working poor republican they know(im actually a registered Libertarian) but The ire that this has provoked is just a little extreme, as im sure out there is a batch lot that may have cans that have 202 caps in them..... I work in a press shop and running envelopes the press has a counter so most times a box of envelopes that says 500 has 500, but a lot also have 505 and as many as 515 but Ive been shorted as many as twenty thats why in some distant past an industry standard of 10% was adopted on overruns and underruns. I have no idea how the boxes are packed weather its fully automated or some person who knows about 14 inches of envelopes is a box of 500 and packs em by hand. materials handling equipment is not infallible. yes it does add up but are we getting just a little too worked up about something on a personal level that has really little impact. jumping right to the great corporate conspiracy?
love you guys dearly,but have a guiness and channel your rage on keeping the sex offender registry active and push for more jail time for those sick bas****S, insted of inciting a push cart war.
Seamus
"SOMEBODY LIGHT THIS MONKEY!"
Homer J. Simpson
I smell a conspiracy
My nursing home currently has 21 boxes of paper clips, 11 boxes of staples, assorted boxes of pins, tacks, syringes...not to mention bulk bottles of Aspirin, Tylenol, cough drops, and other medications. Shorting us 3 paperclips per box or five Tylenol per 1000 could be one of the reasons we aren't turning such a huge profit here! Starting immediately, I'm authorizing my CNA's overtime to break out the paperclips, staples, aspirin, tylenol, syringes, pens, pencils, tacks, toilet paper (are there REALLY 1000 squares per roll or 998?)...and we're COUNTING by GOD! We MUST stop this conspiracy before these big corporations start selling three pound coffee cans with 2.89 pounds of coffee! Seamus, get on board with this...how can your call yourself an American and turn your back on this heinous crime. Next thing you'll see is gas going for $3.00 a gallon while Exxon CEO's retire with a $400 Million retirement package.
Right On, Rod!
Rod, that's the kind of spirit I'm talkin' about! If we don't put a stop to this sort of thing, then next it'll be gas at $4.00 a gallon. Really, Seamus, where is your sense of righteous indignation? I've got some lovely swamp land to sell. By the way, that reminds me of a story; my girl was buying a house, and there was a great big swamp in the back yard. I told the realtor that the asking price was a lot, when half the land was just swamp. The realtor looked down her nose at me and informed me that it was not a swamp, but WETLANDS, and we were getting a bargain by having so much WETLANDS included in the deal. She bought the house.
Bob Firth
Late of the 25th Mass
Actually
see below! the comment double posted.
Actually
With the caps we (29th GVI) decided to issue/sell in tins at 50 per tin. As far as time counting...any one who played the game Risk for any length of time has acquired the ability to count pieces (caps) quickly. Thus we are able count a box of 1000 caps in less then five minutes. It was from the count out that the shortages were discovered. I was perplexed with the consistency of 198 per tin. I won't rule out a calibration error but for the heck of it I opened the next box of tins. Each one held exactly 200.
Suddenly that $80,000 profit was shrinking to $60,000. Now remember these are German musket caps. So the profit margins tend to be very lopsided when American merchants don't know that we've been short changed.
Now it is quite possible that the German's are innocent of anything. I based this on the fact that they are quite proud of their technologies and precision with machinery. In fact, it would not surprise me in the least, the discrepancy didn't actually occur while the shipment was rolling through France to one of their ports to America. The real question remains where are the missing caps?
Will
The French Connection
It's all starting to make sense now...this could be a conspiracy in which the implications of the DaVinci Code PALE in comparison. Imagine, if you will, the French...a people who have been invaded by every country in Europe, except the Luxembourgians, have finally had enough. They are a major transportation route for good manaufactured in Europe sent to the coast for shipment...German caps, Yugos, Russian Vodka, Latvian Map Pins, those little brass pull thingys that attach to zippers that come from Poland, and don't forget escargots that I believe are really grown and harvested in the escargot swamps of northern Italy.
But I digress...
Imagine, if you will, truck loads and train cars of these goods passing through the French Countryside, being stopped at customs stations and the goods inspected. For each case opened, the Gendarme's pocket two pins, a couple caps, the spring from a Black Forest Cuckoo Clock, a snail, the gas cap from a Yugo, a zipper pulley thingy....
Soon, their warehouses are brimming with surplus goods...which they can then sell at a cheaper rate to Americans and Canadians. The Germans, and all other past invaders against whom the French have harbored grudges for centuries, will suddenly see themselve being undersold...demand for their goods will plummet, economies will crumble...and then the French will be the central economic power in Europe!
Revenge is a dish best served cold...with a side of Northern Italian Escargots....
Viva le Revolution!!!!
Exactly
That's how it starts. A few musket caps short of a full tin, no one says anything and the next thing you know they will be goose stepping through Poland.
Bob Firth
Conspiracy Theorist
we are talking about the
we are talking about the French?
wouldnt that be shashying into Poland?
or maybe Sauntering?
their latent voulptiousness,combined with their Gallic laziness,, they would rather eat and make love with their faces than fight....
Seamus
"SOMEBODY LIGHT THIS MONKEY!"
Homer J. Simpson
Holy cow - you guys are
Holy cow - you guys are starting to sound like you are all "a few caps short of a full tin"!
;-)
well thats about the size of
well thats about the size of it....
now if y'all excuse me I have to go back to my box......
Seamus
"SOMEBODY LIGHT THIS MONKEY!"
Homer J. Simpson