Submitted by Southron Fire Eater on

I was watching the news earlier and watched with interest as details of Bush's spying operations were shown. When I made my super I turned on a movie I had just rented. The new version of the War of the Worlds. What is interesting is the the basic theme of the movie runs parallel to our fears of terrorism. The original war of the wars ran parallel to America's red scare in the 1950s. There is this great America cycle of fear that seems to progress from generation to generation. What is the purpose of fear?
I found some interesting articles on the subject.

These Americans feel that America is being brainwashed by fear, controlled, and maupulated by fear to choose security over freedom. That there can be no way to win a war on terrorism anymore than there can be absolute victory in the war against drugs. Some feel that we allow Bush to get away with invading Iraq, the Patriot Act, and his wire tapping so that we may stay secure...

"THOSE WHO WOULD TRADE ESSENTIAL LIBERTY FOR A LITTLE TEMPORARY SECURITY DESERVE NEITHER LIBERTY NOR SECURITY." Ben Franklin

"A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both and deserve neither." - Thomas Jefferson

"All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree." -James Madison

"They are continually comin g up with new ways of keeping the citizens of the U.S. in a state of fear. The "security alert" with it's color coding is perfect. All they have to do is change the color of it to turn the level of fear in this country up or down, just like controlling the flow of water in a faucet."-Kathy Wilson Anderson

HISTORICALLY, fear has proven to be one of the most successful political means of controlling the masses. Not for the first time, our political masters are employing the tradition of using exaggerated fear to further their objectives. This time around the aim is to gain public acceptance for anti-terror legislation.-Dr Amjid Muhammad

Our own government has us capitulating to fear, using the psychology of the weak-minded human brain to ensnarl us in terror. It is using human fear to erode our freedoms and rights. In order to feel secure, in order to have a sense of safety our fellow citizens are gladly eviscerating their rights and freedoms, granting their government unprecedented levels of power over us. We are blindly giving up the beauty of America and the future of our children for the perceived security provided by government. -Manuel Valenzuela

Some Americans feel that the fear and battle of terrorism is real and that we must make sacrifices to use every resorse whatever the cost to fight and win.

In response, American policy should be predicated not on friendship or the desire for appreciation, but on what is in our national interest and what is right — whose symbiosis is possible only through the current policy of consistently promoting democracy.
Yet if we get through all this with the extinction of Islamic-fascist terrorism and an end to the Middle East autocracy that spawned and nurtured it — and I think we are making very good progress in doing just that and in less than four years — it will only be because of the superb quality of the American military and the skilful diplomacy of those who have so temperately unleashed it.-Victor Davis

Winning the war on terrorism requires winning the war of information."
- Attorney General Alberto Gonzales

While Al Qaeda has only a handful of members, the danger lies in the resonance of their message with billions of desperate, angry people. Just as with communism, we have to fight this battle in a way that separates our enemies from the people they are appealing to. We must show that we care about these people’s plight. And we must not fight the battle in a way that seems to confirm what the terrorists say about us."-Herry McNerney

I have included quotes from both sides of the board. Strangly it is not a right wing and left wing stand but rather one's stand on the price of liberty and the price of security. I will keep my own opinions to myself about whether fear is founded or not in this country and if it has a purpose. But it is a touchy subject and would rather not get fire bombed by members of this board who may disagree. I shared these articles that were inspired by a country's issues that have come and gone since the civil war. I, though, have long ago decided to be very careful with my opinions on this board.

Forums: 

a little advice

Zac, you have already voiced your anit-bush message some time ago. Most everyone knows where you stand and a vast majority here appeared to had disagreed with you back then.

Most of what is in the media these days is smoke and show. Just yesterday, they reported the Mexican Army crossing our border on maneuvers. Okay...it happened back in April 2004! As of yet, the reports haven't shown how the wiretapping by Bush was illegal. It's all talk. The media is so out of control and out of touch these days that it is Lucretius.

This is a Civil War message board. There are items of interest that come up that don't fit the other categories but we should really refrain from posting political opinions that don't relate to history.
Throwing a bunch of historical quotes into a post doesn't necessarily constitute being related to history.

Now, it is true that many folks don't like President Bush, but it really does no good to bash him. It's not going to get him out of office nor is it going to help our country in anyway. If anything it damages our imagine on the international level when they see 100's and 1000's of people bashing their leader. We are not alone in Iraq, there were and probably still is a dozen other countries assisting over there. The effort was made to extend the work we are doing for other nations to assist and help reshape want was a very dangerous regime. Some came and other bulked. Case in point...we are not alone in this mission.

Years ago, when Sen. Benton signed on for Vice-President ticket, he told a story that impressed me. When he first began running for office he was running virtually unopposed as a Republican. An old time politician asked him why he was run as a republican when 90% of the residents were Democrats? He didn't really have an answer. The old time told him, he would do a better service to the residents if he ran as Democrat, and so he did.

It is a similiar situation here on this board. Not saying that you shouldn't have your personal views but there is no good to become of bringing up a trivial subject that you know the majority of people are against you on. If there is nothing to gain why stir the pot?

Just some insights and thoughts.

Will

Speilberg makes some good

Speilberg makes some good movies
But lately his constant movies with a point become tiresome, not that they arent good movies, but th eaverage movie goer is lost to the "real Point" and even some that "get it" only do so because they heard it from a reviewer.
Hollywood in General is out of touch with the american public, Brokeback mountain for example, gets lots of acclaim with critics and theh rest of hollywood, but is only on limited release to locations where it might make some money....The english patient got rave reviews and lots of awards....But was a plodding and boring movie...rife with logistical stupidity...I have watched plodding and boring movies before and came away enlightened but not the english patient....
now to the subject of fear, true enuff that fear helps to motivate the country lets look on past paranoia, duck and cover...wouldnt actually work on the larger megaton weapons, NbC training often gets silly when we get to the N part..you have more chance against chem and bio then nuke....
Real threat, but at waht level?
WWII
love those bugs bunny cartoons when hes doing the elmer fudd treatment to some Japanese Soldier, artfully drawn with thick glasses and slanty eyes,,,big buck teeth, most would know that the average japanese male doesnt look that way but you have to dehumanize your enemy, makes it easier to kill them...
Remember the Maine!
bad gunticking er cotton blew up the Maine, pure accident, gave us the imputus to go to war with spain and aquire the phillipines and panama....later home to the canal(major stratgic point , given away by carter, good move jimmy!)though I dont knock him for his humanatarian works...makes a better gov than president...
and it goes back to the civil war .....on both sides
Fear is employed on BOTH sides of any issue large or small, what is high school gossip but the employment of fear on a smaller and different level
"jimmy says you are gay..."
male does not want to be considered to be such, goes out and smaks jimmy who probally never said such a thing, but a person was manipulated but he did most of it himself...his personal fear that it would spread like wildfire that he was in fact Gay, made him lose self control and showed his conciderable lack of self esteem.
I agree with will to a point that this is like going into Watts wearing a kkk robe....past evidence suggests that the message board is roughly 95% republican give or take 5% im actually a Libertarian meself, but mostly vote republican.
Zac has his points in that it is in the chatter section where we often build mythical Ironclads....so its perfectly ok to post it...and it does have a possible hook to it that can be applied to history....as others could cite examples of Fear and manipulation,
Personally I dont buy what either side is selling most of the time,
Seamus
(soylent green is people!)

"it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifing......nothing"
MacBeth

PRIMA NOCTA

Looks like a cat

If it looks like a cat, feels like a cat, sounds like a cat...it must be a Dog! Best I can do with the post. I did say couldn't just suggested for your peace of mind you shouldn't post controversial items if you don't want the heat. I re-read the original post several times before I remotely saw that it may not be as it appears. Oops my goof up. Luckily I restrained myself from any harsh comments on what appeared to be more Bush bashing. I doubt I was alone with this thought. It is seldom that one can be objective and neutral with a subject after vehemently attacking or giving extreme views. For what it is worth, there is a heavy tone of anti-Bush in the post. Perhaps if he were left completely out of it, I would not have walked away with that opinion that the post was against Bush and the war.

Will

I was watching Oprah the

I was watching Oprah the other day, and for some reason she believes herself to be the modern day guru for the people. She had a terriosim expert, an middleeastern expert and the guy who wrote the book the world is flat, now the terroism expert was saying things like chilling, its going to happen, matter of time, then came an unless.....apparently we dont give enough money to third world countries, so the hate us and want us to die...never mind that most food sent to "impovershed" areas are kept from getting to where its needed by armed thugs who are either employed by the govt or opposition rebels...Re somalia,sudan,ethopia......
If a meteor strikes indonesia killing 500,000 it must be some how Americas fault, that we didnt send our vast space armada to shoot it down. but I digress
but theh world is flat guy and the mid east expert took a different tack, saying things werent all that bad in Iraq, the iraqi on the street says things are getting better and at least we are free...I think Id rather have mad bomers roaming the street than one day a knok on the door and the whole family is arrested and taken and tortured and forced to watch you female family members raped in front of you.......all perpatrated by the Govt.
Bin laden releases a tape....offering a truce? some say that this means we have him on the ropes, cave life is getting a little hard on the old boy.
Fear must be concoured at home(my spelling sucks) and the left is so good at it as well, I am sick and tired of celebrities.....and their mythic causes.....why dont they advocate giving to the Red cross, cancer society, or salvation army? its always about some lesser known charity in Santa Cruz, called the " gaslights for glory" and its all about supporting a transgender thespian group, to advocate tolerance......
but its about fear......but the Iranians, the guys on the street want to be america....if I was to go looking for a second wife, I might go for a young persian....anyhoo....but we have to Fear the madman in the cheep Jordanian suit....
will there be war? thats the tagline now, and of course $9.00 gas, which has almost as much power in the human mind as nuclear devistation... and thank you Harry Belifonte for making us so proud of you.......someone send a black ops team to Venesal that damned s. american country....and one to Hollywood too....
I dont fear... im just mentally tired of..
the.
alf
elf
peta
hollywood
peace activists
terri schivo and anything associated with
democrats
Fema
displaced katrina victims
global warming?
zero tolerance policies
Baldacchi
teachers unions
any unions
large corporations
greed
apathy
legislation for"our own good"
gun control advocates
and most of all..
FEAR!
Seamus
(I really need more coffee)

"it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifing......nothing"
MacBeth

PRIMA NOCTA

Seamus,I'm sending you a

Seamus,
I'm sending you a case of my special blend of decaf espresso laced with 10 mg of valium and a haldol chaser!

It's the diversity that makes us human. If it weren't for all of the misguided tree hugging Al Franken wannabe liberals...then we would be bored to death because it is idiots like them who show us how truly misguided and insane people can be...and in so recognizing the Hollywood Elite Liberal Anti-Bush Freakshows running around this country, we realize just how much harder good Civil Libertarians like us have to work to keep this country sane.

So don't be tired of them, Seamus...embrace them! For they are truly the ones who enlighten us...they are the virtual signposts in the road that point toward the Twilight Zone...Where the misguided liberal extremists go, we know NOT to follow!

As Custer said to Jack Crabb in "Little Big Man"..."You are my perfect reverse barometer..." OK, maybe Custer isn't the best choice of people to quote when representing our side of the issue, but he's all I got this early in the morning.

I have held my tongue long enough.

We really need to stop throwing around the stereotype that all liberals are tree hugging Al Franken wannabees. I am an unabashed liberal who happens to like Al Franken, but has for years worked in the paper industry. I am a liberal who is a Confederate reenactor. I am a liberal who does not want to take anyone's guns. I just believe that there are some things as a society that we have to take care of because there are people out there that won't or can't do it themselves.

Social Security for example. There are people out there that are just living paycheck to paycheck and just can't afford to save anything for their older years. Isn't it wrong for people to look the other way saying, "Well it's their own fault." If they had saved, then they probably would have ended up on public assisstance and then people would have looked down on them as deadbeats. Are there problems? Yes there are, but that's why we have to work to solve them.

Medicaid and Medicare. Should we as a society discard those who can't pay for medical treatment or as a Christian nation do we help those less fortunate?

In closing, just remember Jesus was a Liberal.

I'll get off my soapbox now and await for the mud.

What's The Point?

When Spielberg came out with "Saving Private Ryan"all the pundits (Sandskrit word for mindless idiot) were extolling how the realism would show everyone the horrors of war and we would all hold hands and sing KUMBAYA!. Well pals & gals the ones who REALLY were there on Omaha, Utah, Sword, Gold & Juno beaches,and survived the slaughter were the ones who were promoted or voted into office and sent people to places like Chosin Reservoir, and Khe San. If those who really fought and bled didnt get the message, HOW THE BLODDY HELL CAN A 3 HOUR MOVIE DO IT!!!!

"Never Apologize, It's a sign of weakness!
Cpt. Nathan Brittles

Pvt. Steve Henry
Co. A, 3rd Maine Volunteer Infantry
"Bath City Greys

illegitimi non carborundum Pvt. Steve Henry Co. A, 3rd Maine Volunteer Infantry "Bath City Greys"

Jesus as a Liberal

Yes, our Lord and Savior by definition may have been a liberal, but look what the powers that be did to him!
"Never Apologize, It's a sign of weakness!
Cpt. Nathan Brittles

Pvt. Steve Henry
Co. A, 3rd Maine Volunteer Infantry
"Bath City Greys

illegitimi non carborundum Pvt. Steve Henry Co. A, 3rd Maine Volunteer Infantry "Bath City Greys"

Franken's actually a good comedian

I never said ALL liberals were "tree hugging..etc" I just said "if it weren't for all of the tree hugging Al Franken wannabe's, then we wouldn't have...etc" There are some good liberals who make sense, and there are some good conservatives. There are also fanatics on each side who make enough noise to cause all the hubbub...the libs and conservatives who are more toward the center are willing to see both sides of the fence and try to work a reasonable compromise.

As for Franken, he's pretty funny. I listened to Air America a few times and think it's one of the funniest comedy shows on Radio!

America NEEDS liberals, concervatives, and centrists. One faction cannot be completly in charge because both sides have been known to come up with some really stupid ideas (Undocumented Guest Workers comes to mind from the Republican side...what WAS he thinking when he said that?) I don't agree with a lot that the Conservative side says, but I disagree more with the extreme left (The Hollywood Left..the ones who are WAAAAYYY out there).

So I'm not bashing all liberals. We need to balance each other out, point out the facts because each side sees them a little differently. It's like Pentacostal's and Lutherans. We all have the same bible, but get two completely different interpretations. The left and right read the same Constitution and can't seem to agree on hardly a single paragraph.

I agree that Social Security is a joke, but I really don't want to have my money taken by force by any government in order to pay for someone else's oil, or drugs, or food. If the government could come up with a fair way of taxing everyone equally and then actually making that money do some real good, then I would gladly give my "fair share". Medicaid and Medicare? I don't even want to think about the mess that is in. I have 42 residents in my nursing home who deal with that mess daily. The govt screwed that up big time and we need to come up with a good solution. But again...I really hate having my money taken from me by force, and that amount can be increased every year as the government sees fit....

So be Liberal, be Conservative, but be reasonable and use common sense. We can't save all of the trees, and we can't save every country in this world from despotism either.

Passion

Of course Christ lives, but in order for him to rise from the dead, he had to submit himself to the Romans and Pharisees

"Never Apologize, It's a sign of weakness!
Cpt. Nathan Brittles

Pvt. Steve Henry
Co. A, 3rd Maine Volunteer Infantry
"Bath City Greys

illegitimi non carborundum Pvt. Steve Henry Co. A, 3rd Maine Volunteer Infantry "Bath City Greys"

Oh my, I should not say a word...

In my opinion:
Political Jesus? Politics is about the brain and how man governs. Parties and views (liberal or conservitive or whatever) are measured as relative to eachother and are a way to achieve a political goal. Jesus' thought, words, and deeds are about the heart. His death is about our salvation. He came to save us from the religious law written in stone. He came to give us a new judgement which is by our hearts.

Matt 22:15-22
Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk. And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men. Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say unto him, Caesars. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesars; and unto God the things that are Gods. When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

Pvt/Lt Craig Young
3rd Maine, Company A
29th Georgia/7th Maine
Lambh Deargh Erin Abu!
Most importantly we are free. Free in thought, body, and soul.
It is no longer the blood, but the spirit that makes us what we are.
We are Celts!

Pvt Craig Young ./. Dum tempus habemus, operemur bonum While we have the time, let us do good 3rd Maine, Dirigo Base Ball Club, & 3rd Maine Tobogganeers

Good one Craig. Right to the

Good one Craig. Right to the point. as Far as dick Claiming to be a liberal, well one must understand My Rant was going to the Extremes of extremists I doubt Dick will go out and burn down the paper mill to protect the enviroment.What galls me is those that Down the common man as being unable to protect himself, guns bad(you might put an eye out)French fries..(or freedom fries I just call em fries)bad....make you fat...well heres a littel thing get off your buttocks and excercise...bike hike something...What I see as the bigger problem is just a general lack of disipline in the general public most of oour ills were started with the permissiveness of the 60s and the movement of public opinon and micromanagement of a war and now as some of those got older they realized their mistakes and those who didnt have risen to higher hights in Govt and society.
Do I agree with the War? Yes. Do I think its being fought correctly? No. I think we should have gone in with two divisions more than we should have...get there first with the most, and be backed up by support divisions to Fix the roads and power grid. weapons of mass destruction? didnt matter to me, had to be done. insurgents are going to Iraq to attack our Military, not finding their way here to attack us...
Bush Is not the sharpest tool in the shed, but hes a damn site sharper than the one running against him.
SS and medicare, Despite its faults it does help, My wife is on disability with her affliction, so Its helping us, what it shouldnt help is Drug addicts and alchies who did it to themselves..Welfare moms who have kids with different men just for the baby check, we all know some dont we?
I dont make alot but what I make is mine, I did it... Ive looked at the figures there Are times if I became worthless I could make just under what I make playing the system...But thats not what its there for...Its for the downtrodden to use it as a hand up....
But I have ranted too much this morning...See you tomorrow for my next installment.....
Seamus
(libertarian Canidate for Gov)

"it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifing......nothing"
MacBeth

PRIMA NOCTA

I haven't looked at this in a few days.

Steve, Loved the Jesus witticism. No offense was meant, just good old irish wit.

Zac, you have to remember Jesus was obeying the will of God. Historically Jesus was not as powerful as God until the Crucifixion and then he was no longer a singular entity but became part of the Trinity. Though remember, some sects of Christianity do not believe in the Trinity and God is held in higher regard.

As far as the rest of it goes. It's Interesting.

Will