Sorry to be the one to corrupt this category, First Person Exchange. But I've developed some questions about the first person exchanges and from the email I received today, others may have some questions as well.
So I am looking for some input on suggestions or rules for the First Person Exchange. My other questions aside, here are my immediate thoughts and questions:
- If someone has a historical question to something someone has posted, do we want them to post to a side-bar topic like I have done here or do we want that in a separate category?
- We are currently working on a cycle 145 years ago, from current date. Our "letter exchange" is instant. Any suggestions on how to deal with the lag time required to acquire news and deliver postal mail at the time?
- In this 'Politically Correct' 20th century world we live in, some attitudes and comments may require some education. Again, side-bar in this category or another category already in existence or a new separate category?
So those are my immediate questions. Some of you were involved in an email exchange this week where one author wanted to explain his choice of a position. It turned out that everyone seemed to understand. But if some explanation is required where should that be posted? If I don't understand the historical comments of another author, then where should I ask for an explanation? If someone else thinks there is an error, where to they ask for clarification?
I am NOT looking to create a location where anyone gets to argue an opinion or a political slant. There are too many differences today, as there were 145 years ago. But a historical chain of events may need to be discussed. And it is possible that someone may write something that is out of context to the "date" being represented. That may be okay, but shouldn't there be a place to clarify?
Anyway, I am now looking for your thoughts?
Maybe it is as easy as saying, "If someone is questioning a "First Person Post" then they must create a new topic and the title of the new topic must start with "Side-bar" and must contain a link to the "First Person Post" in question.
What do you think?
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I am glad that you opened
I am glad that you opened this discussion, Mike. I was wondering how I was going to give a biographical sketch of my 1st person character without being out of character.
A few ideas...
I've been wondering how to go about this 1st person exchange myself. I've made references to "slow mail due to Jayhawker raids" and information coming late because of the political leanings of the newspapers...but that was to catch up on my character’s backgrounds which, in my neck of the woods, goes back to 1856.
I started by just using my own name but as the story progresses, I think I'll have to go to my fictional characters because it seems strange using my own name for that time period. I've been writing a never-to-be-published novel set in the period of 1856 - 1865, tracing the lives of families from Kansas and Missouri. I found your 1st Person board to be a great place to post letters which helps me outline my stories. The working title is “Of Fiendish Rage and Savage Cruelty
Ive stopped dating my
Ive stopped dating my letters, for that reason. we will for the sake of free flowing exchange have to agree to suspend the concept of time and assume the letters that answer another letter traveled the country the regular way, by the way do we know the average speed of mail before the war? I think I have a magazine that may have that info ,Ill look for it in the meantime.
Im like rod, I hate having to go PC, and like my late father I have more of an inkling to ignore anyone who takes offence, as being unable to grasp higher concepts but in the intrest of enlightenment a explanaton might be good at the top of the thread.
Seamus
"it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifing......nothing"
MacBeth
All good points...
I date mine... as being the day my persona wrote it. Also remember that Telegraph was present and some letters can go quite quickly that-a-way. An example of my getting stuff from papers of the day... was the "Toombs/Wiglaff" part. which came from the Daily Advocate from New Orleans. from January 12th '61. My son got me this great book with copies of the real newspaper pages from the period. Of course even though it's a large format book, you STILL need an electron microscope to read the darned articles.
2nd Lt Eric R. Reeder
United States Army
Corps of Topographic Engineers
"Hawks and Eagles fly like Doves"
2nd Lt Eric R. Reeder United States Army Corps of Topographic Engineers "Hawks and Eagles fly like Doves"
My 2 cents
I agree that for the sake of continuity and flow of ideas, we'll have to sort of "ignore" the time issues. I think the best way to handle any questions or explanations of posts is exactly as you said, create a new topic starting with sidebar-whatever the post title is-. I'm not sure if I can post a link to the "other" post with webtv.
I also think while we're pointing things out to the "PC crowd" we should point out that these are first person, fictional posts and may contain not only ideas that are offensive to modern sensibilities but some that are actually quite far from accurate as well. By which I mean, to stay with the flavour / feel of "period" writings means not all first person accounts will agree with historical fact. For example, I have read some accounts just after Bull Run where the author couldn't understand why the army had retreated. Things seemed to be going well on their particular part of the field...
God Save the Union!!
SD Scroggins
I'll see your two cents and raise another two...
...had some more coffee...brain is working again...dangerous thing...
How about a "Biography" page were we can introduce our 1st person characters, giving their names, date/place of birth and some background. That way as we read the 1st person posts, we get to know writers (characters) a little better. Knowing the writer’s background makes it more personal; we can better understand the emotions behind the words. As things progress, we can follow the events and how they affect the characters over time.
We can all agree that anyone who lived through the war would not come out the same way they went in. As this war progresses, we can bear witness to the struggles they went through to maintain their heath, sanity, faith, property, and lives. We construct our character’s foundation, then watch how well that foundation holds up against the forces of war. They may survive intact, or crumble and fall...it’s up to the individual writers, but it will give us, both writers and readers, a deeper story.
This first person idea has the potential to make for an interesting history. Rather than dry facts about what general moved what troops where, we have the farmer, the preacher, the printer, the doctor, and others from all social and economic backgrounds. They live scattered all over the country and can share stories about major battles, small backwoods skirmishes, life in the big cities and small towns, and report on the famous like Lee and Grant to the not-so-famous like Champ Ferguson or M. Jeff Thompson.
This could be fun!
Fabulous idea!
...now to flesh out my guy...
2nd Lt Eric R. Reeder
United States Army
Corps of Topographic Engineers
"Hawks and Eagles fly like Doves"
2nd Lt Eric R. Reeder United States Army Corps of Topographic Engineers "Hawks and Eagles fly like Doves"
My takes on Side Bars
I see "Side Bars" more to get clarity of posts that may have enigmas to them and not to pick a fight. Apparently we have plenty of questions, ideas and concerns that make the sidebar important as we are seeing here.
I date my posts as well. It is more important to learn what events are happening at the time than when after the event you could have possibly known about the event. As Eric mentioned, the telegraph let people know of important news, such as succession within hours, while you might not learn of Clarabelle's death until months later. I feel it is more important to keep consistancy with the present time 145 ago from present date.
By the way who was Clarabelle? Some folks may have inquiring minds that need to know things such as who or what but don't the resources (nor have time to waste researching) to discover who or what a poster is talking about. Asking in the 1st Person thread and be auckward and inconsistant with the experience. Thus "Side Bar", "Will, who is Clarabelle?"
Okay, I am going to shoot myself in the foot! Try not to post very long posts. Reading a five page letter about Clarabelle would be fascinating...well actually it's just interesting....well maybe not.
I like the biography idea for the ficticious charactors. Like Zac, I would like to introduce my g.g.g.grand father but if no one else has a clue who he is or if he is real...it seems shallow, well... against Clarabelle.
I prefer facts or historical consistancy. Please no Forrest Gump senarios of I was the one who brought Mr Stephan Fosters wash basin to him the night he died or I pulled the paper for Gen. Lee's surrender out of my haversack because such small details were forgotten by the Major players in the event. Though they did use the pen I pull from my haversack given to me by Clarabelle before she died.
Finally, constructive critism can go a long way. I am going to try to keep this in mind. The Side Bar is a good place to get non-1st person information. Example Craig's post on abolishonism was beginning to get to me. I didn't know if he was serious or not. Later I found out he was portraying a character. He did a pretty good job convincing us that he felt the war was all about Slavery. This saved me a letter to Mr. Preston Brooks asking if he would talk with Mr.Young.
In closing, was anyone happy I didn't mention Clarabelle in the last paragraph?
Will
I am going to have to write
I am going to have to write a bio for my charater, I am going to have to flesh it out with three others, as I have vaguely commented that four of us know each other from the crimean, Craig, me , rod , and scott, loosly speaking both rod and scott were doctors abroad and I believe Craig might have been serving in the Black Watch with me....Me being the classic Irish mercenary....I have downloaded and printed out an old map of Henry county Alabama to get an Idea about distance and towns...so I can get a more local flavor....I agree with will about the Forrest Gump thing, we dont want to get carried away but as For me, I will be doing more of a personal outlook on things as they happen and I mean the details like mens letters from home and the possiblities of men deserting....with only vague references to the larger happenings of the war.....
Seamus
"it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifing......nothing"
MacBeth
No Forrest gump thing...?
Well so much for the Shrimpboat Captain idea!
2nd Lt Eric R. Reeder
United States Army
Corps of Topographic Engineers
"Hawks and Eagles fly like Doves"
2nd Lt Eric R. Reeder United States Army Corps of Topographic Engineers "Hawks and Eagles fly like Doves"
We don't need Forrest Gump
I was thinking a lot about this 1st person thing and I can see it opening a big can of worms for folks who want to keep it literally on track with dates and people...and those like me or Zac (a really good writer, by the way...) who want to use a little poetic license to insert more feeling and flavor into the stories. As soon someone writes, "I handed General Lee an apple..." or something like that, you'll see someone on there requesting a sidebar and saying that "You couldn't have possibly handed him an apple on that day because he was 32 miles south and that county didn't have apples ripe enough yet...."
But there is no way you can have an interesting 1st person without allowing the characters to have SOME interaction with historical characters and events.
Many of us love to write and tell a good story. As long as the character doesn't BECOME the history, but just lives in the shadows of the facts, I don't see it becoming a problem.
History is full of unknown characters who played major roles. The farmer who actually did show General Curtis where he could cross Brush Creek south of Westport and flank Price's army at the battle of Westport was never named....that's one example where a character in the 1st person could actually be used...just to show HIS or HER side of the story, bring a little color and flavor to the narrative, and make for a more interesting read. A person really existed who did the deed...but history has lost his name...so as long as it really DID happen and can be verified by historical record..then why not give him or her a face and name? It won't be taking anything away from the actual person, and it won't be altering the facts or changing history.
So, there are areas where the character can play an important part, but forever remain "in the shadows".
Well....
... Zac gave me quite a challenge in working him in to my story line, but I'm glad he did. I found out about the Montevolle Mine which was the first systematicly run underground mine.. It was laid out in 1856.
Since I had established going out west at that time and the "Trail of Tears" was an established westward route... It'd make sense for me to have gone down that way and take the side trip down to the mine.
So Bingo!... Great rationale for Zac and my story to jive.
The great thing, is I got to learn all about the stuff in the process!
2nd Lt Eric R. Reeder
United States Army
Corps of Topographic Engineers
"Hawks and Eagles fly like Doves"
2nd Lt Eric R. Reeder United States Army Corps of Topographic Engineers "Hawks and Eagles fly like Doves"
The character's view of events-Not the character
Thanks for the comments everyone. I've been kind of sitting on the sidelines here see where you see this going. And trying to clarify in my mind how to manage some of the issues that may arise.
Where do I see this going?
It's a fun way to add to our knowledge. Each of us seem to have some very specific focuses within the scope of the American Civil War and American history as a whole. This provides a unique way of sharing that. And hopefully enjoy ourselves along the way.
But what about Forest Gump?
I've got some concerns. Frankly a Gump-ism is a tough one for me. One the one hand, I don't see a problem with one of us writing our character into helping Gen. Grant down the gangway of a river boat just before the attack on Fort Donelson if the character was in a unit that was in the area at the right date. Does it affect the outcome of history? No.
But I am less comfortable with someone writing a character who is the one who shot Gen. Reynolds at Gettysburg. True, we don't know that person and it doesn't change the event. Nor does it really have any significance to history. But it just feels to much Gump-like.
And the Gump-ism I definitely want to avoid is showing up everywhere, standing next to everyone. It must fit the story line without stretching the space-time continuum! :) It's to easy to write and it is just a wimpy effort to make a character interesting. There are much more creative ways.
Now that is not to say that your character can never meet the President, of which ever side, but make sure it fits your character, location, time-line. It has to be feasible. And doesn't mean the president is putting you on staff! :)
The space-time continuum?
Okay, I can see that we will have to suspend some disbelief of the time necessary to transport a letter or to receive news from one location to another.
But a character travelling must be reasonably accurate. It's not going to fly for someone to be at the first day of Gettysburg and the surrender of Vickburg.
Side-bars?
I think a side-bar should be started if someone wants to understand an event or aspect mentioned in first person correspondence. A side-bar should be a strictly historical discussion. There is little debate in a historical discussion. The discussion should be about clarifying a chain of events or factors influencing events. The first person character's action or presence in that event will either become clear or be revealed as lame.
Lame-factor?
Too many promotions too fast. Too much time on detached service to distant lands? I'm going to call a Lame-factor if I think the actions of a first person character require explanation. But be constructive. If it is possible but far fetched then maybe let it go. But if someone repeatedly performs a "James West and Artemus Gordon" miracle then it needs to be discussed.
The focus should be on the characters view of events. Not the characters involvement in events.
And that is the golden rule. How does your character see the events unfold? What does he/she think? That is more important to me than being the person who held Jackson's horse at Bull Run.
Biography background?
Sure, I can see that they may be required from time to time. And if a few characters want to work out some details of their relationship then that's okay.
But I would be more impressed if you can figure out how to explain that in the correspondance. Maybe refer to an old story you recalled. I don't know exactly how it will work. But I think it would be more fun to learn some details over the coarse of the correspondance.
So there are some fine lines that we can cross and define. I don't have all the answers. But these are some thoughts I've had. I'm not going to set any rules right now. I want to see how it develops. And let's deal with issues as needed for now. Let's make up the rules as we go along!
Above all, let's have fun. It's not serious. It's a collaborative work of historical fiction.
--
Michael Johnson
In one John Calhoun's latest
In one John Calhoun's latest letters, he was feeling a grief over one of his uncle's loyalty to the Union. The feeling was especially hard because his uncle, Abel Blair, was a native of South Carolina living in Texas and is from a family of genuine secessionists. I choose this theme to show that most families in the South were related to someone or another who supported the North and its cause. Every Confederate State except for South Carolina, before the end of the war, had committed at least one regiment for the North. Texas gave at least three, I think, to the Northern war effort. The last battle of the Civil War in May 1865 Texans serving in both Union and Confederate regiments fought against each other near Brownsville, TX. In fact, Sam Houston, a Lone Star legend who won the Republic of Texas her independence from Mexico, became one of her presidents and later a Texas governor opposed secession. Many believe he felt this way because it had taken him nine years to make Texas a state in the Union. Yet, when Lincoln wrote Houston asking for permission to send Federal troops to Texas to keep it from seceding, Houston refused the offer, saying that he did not want to play any part in causing bloodshed in his beloved Texas. He also declined an offer to become a general officer in the Union army. But because he refused to back secession with his political support, Sam Houston was asked to step down as governor of Texas. He died July 26, 1863.
Where be anyone? The war is
Where be anyone? The war is still young, surely you have not all died of camp disentary.
Eleven states and two territories have all seceded. Regiments and brigades are being organized all over the Confederacy and the Union. Civilians are enjoying the show. The battle of Big Bethel is but a few days away.
Oh brothers and sisters, where art thou??
"Genius sees before hand what should be done and common place sees it when it is too late.' 'The difference between genius and common place. The first depends on himself and the latter trusts others."-William C Oates
Dating?
Arent you supposed to stop dating once you get married?
"Never Apologize, It's a sign of weakness!
Cpt. Nathan Brittles
Pvt. Steve Henry
Co. A, 3rd Maine Volunteer Infantry
"Bath City Greys
I wouldn't know! "Genius
I wouldn't know!
"Genius sees before hand what should be done and common place sees it when it is too late.' 'The difference between genius and common place. The first depends on himself and the latter trusts others."-William C Oates
Did anyone survive the
Did anyone survive the battle of Manassas??
The creation of the first person exchange on this board was, in my opinion, the neatest idea I've seen here. As much as I enjoy the regular gossips, ideas, inside humor, and chatter that I see at other threads, I thought this to be the most unique and interesting for several reasons.
Every one of joined this hobby for a different reason. In some cases there were personal reasons not only the choice of uniform but the choice of regiment.
The first person exchange to me is a nice way for everyone to kind of explore the deeper sense of this hobby. For most of us, I think, reenacting is more than wearing the uniform of the soldier we portray, camping in the same kind of tents that they slept in, and more than shooting the same kind of weapon that they shot. We reenact not just for the appearance of the Civil War soldier but also who he was. Reenacting is also getting to know who were these men we portray, who led them, and capturing as close as possible what they did every day and how they must have felt or lived. That all interests us, I am sure.
That is why I like this first person exchange. We all know what soldiers look like sitting around, drilling, or even fighting. We've reenacted those parts many times before. This thread seemed to me, a chance to touch on the personality of the war and its characters...something that I feel is unfortunately lacking at many events and discussions.
You all have some very interesting characters and stories behind your first person portrayals. I hope to see you return to them soon! The battle of Manassas has passed, the Confederate Army is encamped in Northern Virginia and Little Mac was just given command of the forces around Washington. New regiments are being formed every day including the 15th Alabama at Fort Mitchell.
Both countries no longer believe that the war will be short but surely it will be over by Christmas. It was not over by harvest time as many in the Midwest and South had hoped.
I hope to see some of you returning to the first person exchange. For the different characters and stories you have been portraying offers a special and personal tone reflecting a part of reenacting that seems kind of rare.
My biggest wish, however, is to see a first person flavor begin to develop in our camps and at our events someday. THAT is reenacting.