Submitted by capt cotton on

The votes were counted and results are in:

http://www.courierpub.com/articles/2005/11/17/republicanjournal/local_ne...

Will

Forums: 

I hope everyone involved

I hope everyone involved will move on and continue the great work on the fort. I also hope everybody will continue attending the reenacting events and put this all behind us. I am relatively new to reenacting but enjoy the events at the fort very much

Wishful thinking!

I guess nobody really thought this would be over. It is to everybody's expectation that the issue would end up in court but new stunts are pulled at every turn. See article:

http://www.wabi.tv/story.asp?11464

Last week's vote made it pretty clear that the majority of the members of the Friends of Fort Knox supported the current Board and their decisions. For a second time, the Seymour camp refuses to accept the outcome of a voting process they insisted upon having. Because the vote did not turn out the way they wanted, they are crying foul and want to recall the proxy votes. There is no evidence that the proxy vote targeted specific voters but the Seymour followers suspect that without the proxy votes his side might win. At this point there is no claims of vote tampering but I am certain this will be brought up.

Moral dilema, do you deny the vote to people who for one reason or another can not make an election? Do you cater to a specific special interest groups demands? From the lastest moves from the Seymour camp, it is clear they do not respect democracy nor are they looking out for the best interest of Fort Knox. Instead, this has become a self serving political campaign which is what I have inferred from the beginning!

All that the process is doing is wasting time, money and polarizing more people against each other. The longer this nonsense goes on the longer it will take to continue with the mission of preserving the Fort with the full extent of our resources.

Will

Lastest on the Fort

This article sums up both sides issues. It is split issue where on one hand one group is claiming it is the will of the membership that the excutive director be reinstated but then after losing wants to deny voting to some members because they were not in attendance. They could have protested the proxy process weeks before the election but chose not to do so. So much for the will of the members.

http://www.courierpub.com/articles/2005/11/25/republicanjournal/local_ne...

Why the proxy vote at all?

I should just keep my mouth shut but...

I don't understand why the proxy or mail-in votes were even started? If the by-laws say must be present to vote, then where did this idea pf proxy votes come from?

I don't care for the politics from either side frankly. It's an ugly mess now. And the shame of it is that the focus is off from raising money for the fort. At least that is the appearence. I do hope I am wrong on this last part.

--
Michael Johnson

-- Michael Johnson

As a board member...

...and Vice President of "The Friends of Fort McClary" I can only hope we don't end up with a problem like this. The focus should be focused on the Fort and not personalities. It's a sad thing either way.

"Hawks and Eagles fly like Doves"

Major Eric R. Reeder
CSO, 1st Division ANV, Staff
Liberty Hill Signals

2nd Lt Eric R. Reeder United States Army Corps of Topographic Engineers "Hawks and Eagles fly like Doves"

Proxies

I think the issue was one of strategy but without seeing the actual by-laws I can only speculate.

It was expected that the True Friends will arrive in force with "Paper" names that will only show up once and seldom return. It is well known that they were mustering up new members including entire families to vote. Many of these people didn't show an interest in belonging to the organizaton until the issue of Mr. Seymour came up.

In order to get a true balance of want the membership ready felt, they allowed a proxy vote. Remember, the vote did not have any authority to hire, fire or reinstate, as only the board has this power. Thus it was only an advisory vote as what to do with Mr. Seymour. The real issue was whether or not they had the votes to remove any of the Board members.

Since it is allegedly not specifically in the By-laws as to the process of removing board members, the board feel it was best to allow a proxy vote as allowed by State Law. The end result proved their theory to be correct. The Seymour Camp arrived at the polls with overwhelming numbers and claim that the voting in attendance were 69-23 in his favor. You would have to had been a moron on to NOT expect this as he stack the odds in his favor with last minute members. This I know because I saw the list of walk in members when I entered and there were about 25 names on it.

It was a bit intimidation walking into the place with Mr. Seymour and some crony campaigning at the doorway walking in and out of the polling room. This is illegal at state and federal elections.

End result was that you still got a skewed number because even with the majority supporting the current Board of Directors. The 2/3 majority could not be accomplished for any single member.

End in point, is it right to deny vote to people that can not make it to the polls. Before gambling and losing, the Seymour camp felt everyone should vote. They were mostly silent on the issue. Afterwards Mr. Seymore is making absurd comments about the people who voted against him, as they don't know the facts or that they are friends and relatives of the current board members. Isn't that a twist of facts?

The really bizarre part of the whole mess is Ms Campbell and Mr Celli filing a lawsuit attempting to freeze the Friends bank accounts. Neither of these people are on the Board of Directors and have no authority to make transactions for the Friends to begin with. If this suit goes through, every group will need to start considering who they allow in as a member.

Eric, I agree with you...may you never experience this type of problem. Hopefully this will be resolved by spring.

Will

It's a Shame...

Is this Florida with the recounts and disputes over absentee ballots?

The Fort will suffer and will take time for it to regain the momentum that was lost due this dispute. If freezing the assets of the friends happens, it can only due more harm than good..

Shaking my head...
Marc

mistaken id

arent there red diamonds on those kepis? and the corporal on the end looks familiar......
anyhow its a sad tale that gets longer,let us hope after this court date on the 16th it ends one way or the other.....
Seamus

"it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifing......nothing"
MacBeth

PRIMA NOCTA

Ft Knox

Why not just turn the whole thing over to the 20th ME or another unit.

Seems your the only ones who care about the fort and don't care who's the boss.

Andy Danish
Armorer
US Naval Landing Party
"Rescueing the Army......Again"

Andy Danish Master at Arms US Naval Landing Party THE SAILOR'S PRAYER : Oh Lord above Send down a dove With beak as sharp as razors To cut the thoats of them there blokes What sells bad beer to sailors.

This is by no means a complete explanation...

Hey Andy, Have you ever seen Fort Knox in Prospect, Maine?

It's a grand structure. Very capable of dealing with any threat that could have been pushed up the Penobscot River in the nineteenth century. It's a big task and the State takes decent care of it but can't do enough.

I'm not a member of the Friends of Fort Knox and am no expert on the history of the group but I would say that they have done a lot to improve and maintain the structure and grounds. I think the greatest change is the return of sod to the roof. Amongst other things. I havn't even visited in a few years so I am sure others can speak on this better than I.

A good group doing good work. This recent thing is a shame.

So with that said, there are members of the 20th Maine that are also members of the FoFK. The 20th Maine has supported many efforts and events at the Fort. As have other groups.

Most of us commenting and following along here are just like you. Watching the affair unfold. Taht is certainly where I am! Some here have a deeper interest than others. They are members of the FoFK or of the 20th or of both.

But now that it's been knocked into a cocked hat I think most will wait until the dust settles before anything changes.

Again, this turn of events is a shame. Hopefully a year from now things will be back on track. Who's-ever track that may be.

--
Michael Johnson

-- Michael Johnson

Truth of the matter

The Friends of Fort Knox was put together to help save the fort that was on the verge of being condemned. Portions of the fort have been closed due to neglect and poor maintenance. It was simply a matter of money and the State did not have the revenues to preserve it.

In the 80's, I urged the 20th Me to step up and start fund raising. We (20th Maine) were neither vested nor had the ability through management to attempt such a venture. The 20th Maine (whom has my membership in limbo)still doesn't have the ability for such a venture. When Mr. Mcleod came forth and organized the FOFK, the 20th Maine gave him and the group support and a board position was given to the 20th's President. Since that time, there has always been a member of the 20th Maine on the BOD. This is likily to change if the courts rule in favor of FOFK. This is unfortunate.

This past fall when the 20th Maine boycotted the Fright night event, it put a serious strain on the relationship between them and FOFK. Sadly, the 20th Maine had voted to send an official letter to FOFK but for some reason never did, according to Mr. Price. The FOFK had to assume that what the Newspapers had reported was true, though Mr. Smith (as a FOFK board member)had surely confirmed the boycott.

Truthfully, I am not certain what the court is going to decide upon. This was not an election...or was it? At best, a new election should be called so that everyone has a true opportunity to vote. It is pretty disgusting; the Celli/Seymour camp has been calling for elections so that the will of the people be heard and then can not accept THAT outcome and wants to twist the results until they favor his group's goals.

Other than that Andy, I can only give opinions and my opinions seem to really seriously tick off people who then send me nasty threatening letters or have threatening altercations in public. So I will refrain for the time being. It's been pretty peaceful lately. lol

I hope the best for FOFK and that we will move past the moronic politics going on here!

Will

Ft Knox

Yes, I was at the Fort 2 summers ago for the 20th's August event.
I even made the 20th's callender the next year as the first sailor to attend.
It's quite a place and needs to be preserved.

What I meant was that politics has no place at the fort
or in it's operation.
It's too important to your history !

Andy Danish
Armorer
US Naval Landing Party
"Rescueing the Army......Again"

Andy Danish Master at Arms US Naval Landing Party THE SAILOR'S PRAYER : Oh Lord above Send down a dove With beak as sharp as razors To cut the thoats of them there blokes What sells bad beer to sailors.

Well let me blow some sunshine!

we need a positive posting here even if its just conjecture and opinion, as often does happen if you have an org. you have to have people and they often come from all walks of life, different backgrounds and upbringing, life expeirances that have molded their outlook on life and things in general, now put em togeather and people will gravitate to the ones they feel more comfortable with, sometimes thats good but over time when that happens and a group grows then a polarizing effect takes place...and all it takes is some sort of catalyst to put events into motion that changes the field, and its not always a good thing. But often after the dust settles other individuals come forward that are unlooked for, often they have been interested in whatever was going on but never got involved because things were strained before the catalytic event. Now the fight is over and there is a need for new blood or just warm bodies and then a rebuilding takes place, at first it looks bleak, and there is a feeling of damaged reputations, funds can never be raised, but the stigma goes, maybe not the next day but it will go, and then with fresh faces who are new to the whole thing and are filled with unbridled optimism, a new day begins and the plans both short and long range are more ambitious than the group before could ever muster. some wont happen but if you shoot for the moon you could land in Hawaii, which isnt the moon but still a nice place.
So despair not, friends of history, as you know all these things happen in cycles, and a better day is just over the horizon.

Seamus
(I blow Sunshine, and drink hevily)

"it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifing......nothing"
MacBeth

PRIMA NOCTA

Update

Some have asked what has become of the court hearing on the Fort. As of yet, it is too early to tell. I had to spend the day with an ill relative and could not go to the hearing. I did find this news account in one of the weekly papers which is interesting.

http://www.courierpub.com/articles/2005/12/08/waldo/local_news/4tro.txt

A second article seems to sum up another plight being cause by the so called "True Friends" with the State.

http://www.courierpub.com/articles/2005/12/08/republicanjournal/local_ne...

I'll report more as soon as I hear.

Will

Nearing the end

Mike,
This issue is nearing the end. Although the paper was not as blunt, it seems to suggest that most of the lawsuit was indeed frivolous and unfounded. One can only wonder where the money is actually coming from to pay for the plaintiff's attorney.
We can keep our fingers cross that the Judge will rule in favor of the Friends and keep the election results but I have learned not to put a lot of faith in the system. If the Friends preveil, it would be fitting that they counter sue the plaintiff for all the financial losses but they will probably write it off and just be happy the affair is over. No news on when the actual hearing will take place.

Will

Verdit is in!

Lastest results are in. The Judge apparently has temporarily upheld the election results but will allow the lawsuit by Mr. Celli to go forward. The end result is two lawsuits pending but the major issues are laid to rest for the 2006 season. The paper reports it could take up to 2 years for Mr. Celli's case to be heard. Since there will probably be an election before the case is heard it seems silly to go forth with it and waste the court's time and tax payer's money on this frivilous suit.

Read all about it: http://www.bangornews.com/news/templates/?a=126107

Will

Plight continues!!!!!

The following article of what the so call "True Friends" is claiming is simply unbelievable! All hail Fuhrer Seymour! The "True Friends" are simply going to continue on with their nonsense regardless of court rulings! May democracy rest in peace! I am hopeful that encampments can be salvage at the Fort this year but things look pretty dim over all.

Will

http://www.courierpub.com/articles/2006/01/12/republicanjournal/local_ne...

Ft Knox

I hope everthing works out.

Andy Danish
Armorer
US Naval Landing Party
"Rescuing the Army......Again"

Andy Danish Master at Arms US Naval Landing Party THE SAILOR'S PRAYER : Oh Lord above Send down a dove With beak as sharp as razors To cut the thoats of them there blokes What sells bad beer to sailors.

Stranger and stranger ...

Boy, I just don't understand how the FoFK got themselves into this? I know when I am being watched, especially when I know that others are looking for me to make a mistake, that I make sure I am "on my game", as they say. First they ignore their own by-laws and send out votes for proxies. Then instead of having an election as required they don't and they allow terms of some of their board to expire?

It just gets uglier and uglier. Glad I am not involved...

--
Michael Johnson

-- Michael Johnson

Misinterpretations

Mike,
There is no doubt strange occurrences here. The central theme is still with Mr. Seymour doing everything to get his job back. The election was not suppose to be the annual election but when Mr. Celli filed a lawsuit over the results it only muddied the waters even more. It appears the court considered the November election as an election and is moving forth with Celli's suit with proxies being the issue.

Now here is the point, the True Friends are the ones who forced the Nov. election to be called the annual election. This was only a suppose to be a vote to remove Board members. There are no rules in places as to how this can be done. It was also an advisory vote as to whether or not to rehire, Mr. Seymour. Results were that none of the Board members were removed and Mr. Seymour did not get the votes to be rehired. Yet he continues to be in the picture and acts like he is in charge.

At this point in time, the True Friends are just trying to keep the Friends of FK to appear unstable because their contract with the state could be in jeopardy. If the State breaks off with the contract, then they would either man the site themselves or enter into a contract with another entity. One in which the True Friends will probably bid on.

This has become the absolute worse example of democracy, because one side simply refuses to stop their attacks until they are in power.

Will

how blind we become while

how blind we become while embroiled in war, with bullets or words. since there is a third party involved... Ie the STATE whos property it really is...they dont realize if they dont find some middle ground then neither the FoFK or the TFoFK will prevail.... Im not saying the state will just up and close the fort, but the work that has benn done over the years will undoubtly come under danger of budget constraints and lapse into disrepair as indigent care thakes precedent in a state budget over a large old building made of granite.
or A third party May come in and the motivation is not so much in the way of history as more musical and art productions happen at the fort and the prospect of reenactors being at the fort becomes less and less desireable.
just look at the Norlands...its benifit is that its a private trust-corporation...but they do no advertising, thus its one of maines best kept secrets, and they no longer have livestock there on a regular basis.... a Maine tresure that could have been sensibly devloped into a more rustic version of old sturbridge village is just a collections of old buildings that have been kept up well,
I have talked to Teachers and have found out the rates for schools has been raised so at least in Sad 9 field trips to the Norlands has become low on the totem pole.
So in one case, Ft knox they are getting the wrong kind of publicity and the other hand the Norlands, they are getting next to no publicity....
Infromation is power, and must be handled carefully.
Seamus
(now stepping off his soapbox)

"it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifing......nothing"
MacBeth

PRIMA NOCTA

It is sad!

I guess I can see the Friends side of it a bit clearer because a similar occurance had happened with with the 29th Georgia back in '92. We had one very bad apple who torn the group apart by making a lot of promises to different members. At best he managed to turn 50% of the group. Still he accomplished tearing up the unit. Such is the case with the Friends, there is a opportunity to move on and repair but because of ONE person the negativity continues. Some will argue, it is more than just one person but in fact...if that one person suddenly moved to California, you would see the situation suddenly getting better. Such was the case when that ONE person that plagued the 29th GVI left the region.

From talking with a few state officials, the park in Deed (title)held by the state but the place is actually owned by the residents of the State. Ah...the liberal view and one that I can live with! It is difficult for the State to get involved only because it could show biasism towards one faction over another.

And so the never ending cycle of this saga continues. At this point there is no good solution.

Will

Solomon would cut the Ft in

Solomon would cut the Ft in two! but that would be to no avail would it? Time will tell....or maybe at some point reason will return.
Seamus

"it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifing......nothing"
MacBeth

PRIMA NOCTA

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